INTERNATIONAL Practice Internationales Verkehrswesen (72) 1 | 2020 56 “I would always say: Go! ” The Deutsche Gesellschaft für Internationale Zusammenarbeit (GIZ) GmbH is a global service provider in the field of international cooperation for sustainable development and international education work, with 20,726 employees. How does it feel like to be one of them? In this interview, we asked three transport experts why they chose to work in Brazil, Costa Rica and China for the public-benefit federal enterprise. J ens Giersdorf, Claus Kruse and Sandra Retzer are working with international partners on transport internationally in projects commissioned by the German Ministry for Economic Cooperation and Development (BMZ) and the Ministry for the Environment, Nature Conservation and Nuclear Safety (BMU). They support decision-makers worldwide to find sustainable solutions to urban transport challenges. In this interview, Sophia Sünder from GIZ’s Sustainable Mobility Project in Eschborn explored the professional and personal benefits and downsides of an international job in transport development cooperation. What is your profession and position with GIZ abroad - and what did you do before? Claus Kruse: My profession is Town and Country Planning, and I am currently Project Director for GIZ in Costa Rica in a climate mitigation project in transport commissioned by the German the Ministry for the Environment, Nature Conservation and Nuclear Safety (BMU). I arrived in Costa Rica for the first time in September 2017. Before that, I worked in Germany, Peru, Sri Lanka and Malawi in different positions. Sandra Retzer: I joined GIZ in September 2014 in China, in Beijing and I stayed until February 2019. Currently, I work in Berlin as Director of the Development Policy Forum, which is a project that is funded by the German Ministry for Economic Cooperation and Development (BMZ). I studied economics and before GIZ, I was working for Lufthansa, the German airline, for many years in diverse jobs: I was assistant to the vice president of infrastructure and airports in Munich. Then, I worked for the largest infrastructure project at Munich airport building a new terminal. Jens Giersdorf: I’ve been in Brazil since May 2013, just over six years. I am a Doctor of Political Science. I was previously in Leipzig at the German Biomass Research Center (Deutsches Biomasseforschungszentrum) and was there coordinator for international projects. There, I already was working a lot with Brazilian but also with other international partners. How did you find out about the position with GIZ abroad? Claus Kruse: I looked on the GIZ website. There were four positions in countries that sounded interesting to me. I applied to all four of them and Costa Rica was the first one who said ‘yes’. Sandra Retzer: In 2010, I had the chance to do a sabbatical with Lufthansa, so I decided to go to China. When I came back from my sabbatical in China, there were so many opportunities, so I started to work for another company, which was also a Berlin startup company in the area of management of battery energy storage technologies. I built up the business for them in Asia Pacific and that is when GIZ actually approached me because I was the chairwoman of the Energy Working Group of the European Chamber of Commerce in China. My predecessor in GIZ asked me ‘How about you join GIZ? ’, and then I said ‘Okay, I’m going to look at it! ’ and thus I applied for a position online. It turned out to be a very wonderful choice. Jens Giersdorf: At that time, a GIZ employee referred me to the job advertisement for biogas here in Brazil. Since I had previously worked with this project from Leipzig, I was interested in that. And since my wife is also Brazilian, the decision to go to Brazil was easy and therefore I applied for the job online. Why did you decide to work for GIZ abroad - what was the initial motivation? Sandra Retzer: I studied Chinese at school and at university, so I had this love for the Chinese culture and language from the very beginning. When I was working with Lufthansa, we collaborated a lot with the local government in Germany, for example when we were discussing a new runway or building a new terminal. Later, I worked with many governments of small islands towards a more sustainable future energy system. I always liked this work in the area of political partnerships and that is why it was very attractive for me to start working with GIZ. Claus Kruse: My background is multicultural - half German, half Peruvian. So, for me, it was clear from the very beginning, even before I started university, that I would work abroad and in different Jens Giersdorf is the Project Director of a project on Energy-Efficient Propulsion Systems in Brasilia, Brazil Capital City, Brasilia Photo: Marcelo Bastos / pixabay Practice INTERNATIONAL Internationales Verkehrswesen (72) 1 | 2020 57 countries. I was working in Berlin after university, which was an exciting time, because it was a few years after the wall came down. It was fantastic to act there as a Town and Country Planner. But then after some years, things became normal and started to become a bit boring, so I said ‘Ok, now it’s time to go abroad’. So, that was it. What did your family and friends say, when you told them you would start working for GIZ abroad? Claus Kruse: Coming to Costa Rica was fine for everyone around me, family and friends. But, moving is of course an issue. For me it’s a bit easier: It’s me and my partner only, we have no children and I am lucky that my partner can work from wherever she wants, since she is a freelance consultant for Oxford University. So for us, it’s easy to move around. But I must say, I respect those GIZ colleagues with kids who move from one country to another. I mean, it’s manageable, but it’s a lot of work. Sandra Retzer: I think families are never really happy. So, because China is also far away, my immediate family, parents, brothers, sisters, they of course wished that I am closer to them. For friends, I think, it is attractive because everybody used the chance to travel to China and to get to know the country from someone who is really familiar with it. So, for them it was good, and also keeping relationships with them is so easy nowadays with all forms of new media and social media; so that was quite okay for me. So, how did your life change while working abroad for GIZ in comparison with Germany? Sandra Retzer: I would say what is definitely different, is the great access and trust that you have to the Chinese partner. You really can change things together with the partner governments. I think that is something were you can see the progress immediately and where you really get a lot of appreciation from the other side. A highlight was when we got appreciation as GIZ from the highest political leaders. We were for example of course proud when Chinese Ministers, like the Minister of Transport or the Minister of Energy mentioned and highly appreciated our work. I think this is a very wonderful feedback to the team and this contributes a lot to the spirit in the team. By the end of the day, we had a lot of fun and I think that was something special. I was most proud, that - when I left China - even the Vice Minister came to the farewell party. His words ‘Long distance cannot separate deep friendships’ touched me and I really felt like I leave a lot of friends behind. Claus Kruse: Well, Costa Rica has this reputation of being super cool and green and obviously it is a very nice country - everybody around the world knows it. But that’s of course when you visit Costa Rica and not so much when you start working here. Then you very quickly discover that Costa Rica is like most other countries, with pros and cons, problems and nice sides to it. For example, the country is so small, everyone knows everyone and that is not only nice, but it also has some problems when you deal with institutions where people know each other and they all share histories and common pasts. Those issues are transferred to their working relationships. So, you might be in a meeting and you don’t have a clue what’s going on behind the scenes, but they all know each other and have these histories. So that’s quite difficult. Having said that, after working in a civil war context in Sri Lanka, these problems in Costa Rica are on a lower level. However, in each and every country I have learned loads. You grow as a person with every experience. Jens Giersdorf: I think my life has become more diversified, both professionally and privately. I had previously worked with Brazilian partners, but now working here in Brazil is surely something different. I had my personal views, which may be the best technical solution, but I’ve learned that it’s more about working with your partners to find out what the right solution is. These processes sometimes take time. I think I also learned to have patience and perseverance and to see that you also have to look at what is feasible - even under political circumstances or for financial reasons. And I find it just exciting to see that you can compensate with creativity when the financial resources may be limited and I learned to be more open, to accept other approaches and perspectives to consider. I appreciate because it is an asset to working life and also to the projects. So what does a ‘normal working day’ look like for you? Claus Kruse: Very busy and very full. Which probably applies to 99 % of project directors in GIZ. Early start, late days, late evenings, dealing a lot with counterparts and trying to build trust, as one of the things that consume most energy and time. Unfortunately, also working with our head office, responding requests from the head office, trying to explain things from the world outside Germany to our colleagues, which is not always easy, understandably. I think those two things consume a lot of my time. And of course then the regular things - looking at the contents of our work, dealing with our own staff, sorting out issues of the office, regular stuff. But I think, building and maintaining trust with the counterparts is one of the main things I chose to spend a lot of time on. Sandra Retzer: First of all, I think China is one of the most attractive and vibrant countries. I mean, I say this of course because I have a love for China, but it is also so vivid, and everything is happening there right now, especially when it comes to inventions or new technologies. So, this was very attractive in our work, but this also meant that there was a lot of speed in our work. In general, a normal day Sandra Retzer, Director of the Development Policy Forum at GIZ in Berlin, former Cluster Coordinator in Beijing, China Busy daytime traffic in Guomao, Beijing, China Photo: Vivian Chen / Unsplash INTERNATIONAL Practice Internationales Verkehrswesen (72) 1 | 2020 58 looked like this: we had meetings all day, a lot of internal meetings with the team or external meetings with our partners. Normally, I only got to read my emails in the evenings. Reading or reviewing reports was only possible in the evenings and weekends when there was quiet time. What does a job with GIZ abroad offer you - do you have more freedom or more restrictions in comparison to a job in Germany? Jens Giersdorf: Life in Brazil is very good, especially in Brasilia. It has a very pleasant climate, very constant warm, not too hot temperatures. You can do a lot outside. I cycle to work, I live 15 minutes away. The school and kindergarten of our two sons are also near our apartment. You can do a lot of outdoor activities with the kids, which is of course very convenient in this phase of your life. You can have many hobbies such as hiking, rowing or watching stars at night and take pictures here in Brasilia. That’s for example why the quality of life is very high. Claus Kruse: That’s a good question, I’m not sure. There are things where I feel that it’s much more difficult in Costa Rica. You would think it’s probably the other way around, but from my experience so far - two years only, we have to keep that in mind - it’s not been easy. I find it challenging to achieve things in Costa Rica. Mainly because of, I would say, the relationships with counterparts. I think interpersonal and interinstitutional challenges are more pronounced here than in the other countries I have worked in. Sandra Retzer: In China you definitely have the freedom to follow new topics. We always were looking into what is happening not only because I was responsible for urbanization, infrastructure, mobility and energy. In particular, in the mobility sector a lot of inventions are happening. So, we follow all the trends and we are allowed to follow the trends because also in Germany people want to know what is going on in China? Why is it happening there and not somewhere else in the world? So, what are the conditions? Also, we got a lot in touch with the startup scene in China, especially in Beijing and Shenzhen. So, working with them, looking into questions like ‘Okay, what is happening next? What could have an impact probably on us in Germany, on the German industry and German environment? ’ dominated our daily work. We continuously developed new projects. For example, while I was in China, we developed a project on Industry 4.0, on a mobility and fuels strategy for China, and we collaborated with industrial partners looking e.g. into clean ports. Before I left, one of the hottest topics in transport was autonomous driving or as the Chinese call it ‘intelligent and connected vehicles’. Germany and China wish to set up dialogues for those topics that are so relevant for both countries and their industries. Following those trends, going deeper was definitely one of the fun parts of our work. If you would be faced with the decision to work for GIZ abroad again, what would you say? Sandra Retzer: I definitely would do it again! That is why I am here now. I definitely think GIZ is a very, very good employer. You have the chance to work in different countries, to explore different countries. Also, the diversity of fields you can work in is so broad. There is for example poverty alleviation in one project and then there is the contrary for example in China where we work in the most modern technological fields and where we really follow the trends of tomorrow. I would always say to anyone who is standing in front of the decision: ‘Go! ’. Yes, I think, that all the colleagues that we had in China did not want to go back to Germany. Initially, for many of them it was hard to make the decision to go abroad. But when they are there, most of them do not want to come back. And those who come back, they want to go abroad again. Claus Kruse: Any time! You can live in Costa Rica enjoying a lot of advantages. Compared to many of the countries we work with as GIZ, it’s a peaceful and safe country, a beautiful country to travel, you can do a lot of things in your spare time. So it has advantages, it has disadvantages, like any other place. For me personally, I’ve never really questioned if I’m happy in a place or not. Because I think we learn wherever we are, and with every situation we are confronted, even in situations of war you learn so much about yourself. So that’s worth something. So I don’t know, maybe I’m too easygoing in that way, but I think we can learn anywhere we are. And that’s what motivates me to keep moving. ■ The contribution reflects the personal opinions of the interviewed persons. The interviews were held in November 2019 by Sophia Sünder, Transport Policy Communications Advisor, GIZ Sustainable Mobility Project, Eschborn (DE), sophia.suender@giz.de For more information visit www.jobs.giz.de Claus Kruse, Director of GIZ Project “MiTransporte” on mitigation of greenhouse gas emissions in transport in San José, Costa Rica Road in the Braulio Carrillo National Park, Costa Rica Photo: Miguel Bruna / Unsplash